Life’s Work: An Interview with Sandra Day O’Connor

Sandra Day O’Connor graduated from Stanford Law School in 1952 but had trouble finding work as a lawyer because, at the time, firms would hire only men. She went on to become the first female majority leader of a U.S. state senate and the first woman on the U.S. Supreme Court. Known as a centrist, a consensus builder, and a “mother hen” to her staff, she now leads iCivics, a platform for teaching kids about government. You grew up on a ranch that straddled Arizona and New Mexico—a long way from Washington, DC, and the Supreme Court. How did that upbringing influence you? Growing up on a ranch, you’re assigned certain tasks, and you’d darned well better do them and do them right. Everyone was expected to help and to do their best. I’ll tell you a little story. Once, when I was a teenager, the workers were rounding up the cattle in an area very far from the ranch headquarters. We had to get lunch to them, and the roundup cook for some reason wasn’t going to be there. So I got up extremely early, my mother and I fixed the lunch, and I got in a pickup truck alone to drive to the place where they were. I was going along, when all of a sudden I got a flat tire. So I stopped the truck and got out. I knew how to jack a car up—I’d seen it done—so I found the jack and did that. I worked so hard. Then I got the flat tire off and the spare tire on, put the lug bolts in tight, and got everything working again. But it took me a long time. By the time I got to the men, it was several hours past lunch. I could see my father in the distance—I recognized him by his hat—and I was sure he was mad at me because I wasn’t on time. When I finally got to him, he said, “You’re late.” I said, “Yes, I’m really sorry, but I had a flat tire, and I had to change it. I’m lucky to be here at all.” And he said, “Well, you should have started a lot earlier.” That was the attitude on the ranch. You had to anticipate difficulties, and when you ran into them, you had to overcome them and do your job. And I had failed. It’s not a bad lesson. What other qualities have helped you succeed? I was always a good student, so apparently I have some capacity to learn. I enjoyed being out in the workplace. And I didn’t limit myself to one area of activity. I was willing to take an interesting-sounding job in almost any direction. If given an opportunity, I would try to make something of it and do it well. How did your experience as a legislator make you a better judge? You certainly learn to work with people because you want to have as many on board for your position as you can. And I think that’s a desirable quality in a judge who is writing an opinion too. It’s good if you can get agreement among your colleagues, and, if that’s not possible, you want to write narrowly so that you don’t decide too much in that one situation. But you were sometimes criticized for being too narrow in your opinions. I did make some effort not to write in such broad terms that I would be deciding a lot of future issues. You have to tackle the job in front of you. Sometimes that means articulating principles you know will be applicable in other situations. But I thought we ought to avoid sweeping rulings that would affect things we just didn’t know about, things that hadn’t been described. Otherwise, you might be taking giant steps you’ll live to regret. You can’t anticipate everything. Working on the Court, you’re stuck with your fellow justices for life. What’s the secret to developing strong, decades-long working relationships with peers? Treat people well. Don’t mislead them. Don’t be prickly. Don’t say things that are aggravating. Try to be as agreeable as you can be. Try to be helpful rather than harmful. Try to cooperate. Your clerks often described you as a mother hen, making sure they ate and exercised, taking them on field trips, insisting they spend time with their family. How would you describe your management style? I want to know and understand the people with whom I work, to treat them as fairly and openly as I can, and to make the experience a good one for them as well as for me. How do you pick the people that work for you? I try to pick the most intelligent, talented, qualified people possible. Did you have a mentoring relationship with any of them? I don’t even know what that means. I liked them, and I hope they liked me. Who were the most important mentors in your life? My parents. I had a few well-qualified teachers along the way, but I didn’t have a, quote, mentor, unquote. I couldn’t get a job at first, for one thing. You’ve said that when you first arrived at Stanford and in Washington, you were a little intimidated. Very much so. How did you overcome that? Gradually. You do the required reading and more. You learn everything you can as quickly as you can. You observe. You have to be open-minded and work hard. What advice would you offer women looking to advance in male-dominated fields today? The situation is positive, and women can be hired for good positions, so it’s a question of finding the right fit. When I was first looking for work, they just weren’t hiring women, period. Today as a woman with talent and interest and energy, you ought to be optimistic. Given how hard it was back then, how did you persevere? I just wanted to work at something worth doing—that was my goal. I knew some women had managed to get into law firms and were still there, so that gave me hope. I did think about an academic job and actually had an offer at Stanford to teach, but I wanted to be out in the economic marketplace. When you resigned from the Supreme Court, you were very much at your prime. Do you have any regrets about that decision? No, my husband had Alzheimer’s, and I obviously wanted to give him the kind of care that he needed, to make his life all it could be under those circumstances. I wish I hadn’t been faced with that, but many people are. You were public about that situation and your own struggle with breast cancer. Why? Well, when you’re in a public office, I think it’s a good idea to be as frank and open as you can be. You don’t want to tell them where it hurts and what your temperature is, but I think you can acknowledge an ailment. You and your husband were very active socially. Why was that part of life so important to you? Well, I think you want to have a good time as you go along in life. And so you have to find a balance that will let you work hard and play hard. You also scaled back your law career when your kids were young. Yes, I tried to reduce the workload somewhat outside the home to save enough time to be with them when I needed to be. And it was all right. What are you working on now? My major activity since stepping down has been to try to educate young people in this country about how our government works and why they’re a part of it. Many states have stopped teaching civics. Many now have just one test in all of high school on how government works, a so-called civics exam—that’s just nothing. So I started a website called iCivics, and we have a wonderful group of teachers and game designers working on games to teach certain principles. These are very effective teaching tools. It’s really a joy to see.

Life’s Work: An Interview with Sandra Day O’Connor

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