Ableism is defined as discrimination or social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. It’s essentially a set of values and beliefs about what kinds of people are “normal” and what kinds of people aren’t. Similar to sexism, racism, and ageism — ableism is wrong, and it’s a systemic problem. I wanted to know: How does ableism show up at work? What can we do to create fairer environments that are inclusive to all? And if we see ableism, what should we do? I sought answers from Lydia X. Z. Brown, disability justice advocate, disability studies adjunct professor, attorney-activist, and organizer. Watch and learn how to recognize ableist policies and systems at work, tactical ways to be a better ally, and why chasing productivity has a real human cost. Subscribe to HBR Ascend on YouTube for more videos on work, life, and everything in between. Transcript CHRISTINE LIU: Here are some facts — one in four adults in the U.S. lives with some sort of disability. Three out of five adults in the U.S. live with at least one chronic health condition. And over 1 billion people in the world live with some type of disability. These numbers are significant and growing. And yet ableism is still a problematic issue, especially at work. Ableism is discrimination or social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. Similar to sexism or racism or ageism, ableism is wrong, ableism is hurtful, and ableism is systemic. So what does ableism look like at work? And if you do see it, how do you be a better ally? And how can we all work toward creating a fairer work environment that is inclusive to all? In this video, we’re going to address all these questions and more. Ready to fight ableism at work together? Let’s go. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: If you’re in a workplace where no one who is in a position of power is actually paying attention to very basic means of access and support, long term and short term, for employees or for customers or clients, then you’re in a workplace that is operating in really ableist ways, even if no one is swinging around obvious ableist slurs. CHRISTINE LIU: That’s Lydia X. Z. Brown, disability justice advocate, attorney, and organizer. They currently lead the Center for Democracy and Technology’s work on algorithmic bias and discrimination impacting disabled people. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: It is much bigger and deeper than what words we’re using. Ableism as a set of values and beliefs about what kinds of people are “normal” and what kinds of people aren’t. CHRISTINE LIU: Ableism in the workplace doesn’t just show up in the language that we use. It also shows up in company policies, everyday behaviors that favor or even normalize ableist values. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: I remember for me, even when I was in law school, it was very common to hear other students complain that they thought I was receiving special treatment, which for us as disabled people we know is code for, oh, you’re getting an accommodation that we all think you don’t deserve. And you don’t really need it. And you’re using it to get an unfair advantage. When, of course, accommodations are what are meant to level the playing field. But the true irony of those comments made about me was that I had had almost all of my accommodation requests denied by the law school. CHRISTINE LIU: If you’re listening to Lydia’s story right now and thinking, that would never happen on my team, we’re extremely inclusive, you might be right. But odds are, especially if you don’t have a disability, you cannot see the work that needs to be done because it doesn’t affect you personally. In a recent study, 34% of people in the U.S. with disabilities experienced discrimination or bias at work, often being misjudged, insulted, avoided, or made to feel uncomfortable. We can do better. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: That pervasive belief that non-disabled people can tell who is actually disabled and what disabled people need seeps into our workplace as such that most non-disabled people assume, well, of course some disabled people might face ignorance. But disabled people are treated well. There’s no ableism here. Everyone respects everybody. Everyone has the same opportunities as everybody else. And that is a very, very privileged position. CHRISTINE LIU: As Lydia explains, ableism at work isn’t always super obvious. It can be kind of subtle. Even at companies who earnestly try to cultivate an inclusive culture, certain policies can prove otherwise or even perpetuate a discriminatory environment. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: When you’re in a workplace where there’s absolutely no paid family or medical leave policy in place, that’s an ableist policy. If you’re in a workplace where HR routinely dismisses and ignores complaints, then you’re probably functioning in a really ableist workplace. If you’re in a workplace where people don’t feel safe being able to ask for basic needs to be met, like asking for people to please not eat nuts in the lunchroom, or asking, do you mind if I wear my sunglasses because I’m getting migraines. CHRISTINE LIU: Those are examples of some policies that are administered, managed, and ultimately decided by humans. But that’s not all there is. A lot of companies are also using smart HR tech solutions that are trying to make efficient, data-driven decisions using metrics and AI. These companies think that using algorithms instead of humans will reduce unconscious bias. But in a lot of cases, AI can be ableist, too. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: Employers are increasingly using algorithmic selection measures that might be reviewing candidates before any humans ever look at somebody’s applications and throw people out based upon facial recognition technologies that are analyzing how people move and what their speech is, through personality testing, through resume screening software, all of which can be discriminatory against disabled people for a huge swath of reasons. But then even once people are hired, more employers are using algorithmic management software, which can surveil workers as well as enforce really dangerous standards for productivity, whether that’s workers who are performing physical labor or workers who are doing office work from home. CHRISTINE LIU: This is really troubling. Is there anything that we can do to create a culture of anti-ableism? One of the most powerful things you can do is to speak up when something goes down. It can be as simple as saying, “Not cool,” or, “That’s not funny.” Figure out your go-to ally phrase ahead of time so that you can act quickly in the moment. Being a true ally is having the courage to intervene. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: As a marginalized person, one of the phenomena that I hate the worst is the particular brand of performative allyship, where something awful happens in a public setting or public within an organization. Someone says something racist or ableist and in the moment, nobody says anything. But a few hours later or the next day or a week later, well-meaning white or non-disabled colleagues will then walk up to me and say, “Oh, Lydia, I just wanted to let you know I felt so awful. It was so upsetting to hear that person say that comment that they said in that meeting or in that event. That was so wrong of them. And I really wish I could have said something in the moment, but I’m just so sorry that you had to deal with that. And like please know that I’m here for you.” And I’m standing there thinking, so why didn’t you say something then if it was actually a problem, if you actually care, because when it counted, when other people could witness what you were doing, you were silent. CHRISTINE LIU: So if you’re dealing with someone who has more power than you or you just don’t feel safe being confrontational in the moment, Lydia suggests using bystander intervention skills. One way to do that is called deflect and distract. Basically, you just want to get that person out of that toxic environment as soon as possible. For example, you can say to your friend, “Hey, sorry to interrupt, but can you come help me? Or can I get your eyes on this for a second?” LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: Just do something to interrupt it. And if you are able then to go with your colleague to another location out of earshot, you can say, “I’ve got you. Would you like me to file a complaint with HR?” Because someone might say they don’t want to. And you shouldn’t be filing complaints if someone doesn’t consent to that. But maybe they say, “Yes, I would really like to complain. Will you help me?” CHRISTINE LIU: Being a better ally is a matter of educating yourself. It’s going to take time and practice to learn. You’re going to make mistakes. And when it happens, how you respond is very crucial. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: I mean, the first thing that most of us want to do if someone tells us you’re doing something hurtful or more overtly you’re doing something [BLEEP] up, the first thing that most of us want to do is to be really defensive, because we are taught in our society that any form of criticism is automatically a personal attack. But we have to work really hard on resisting the urge to externalize our automatic defensiveness. It is OK to say, “OK, I don’t know if I’m in a place to hear all of this right this second. I need to process this for a minute.” But it’s our responsibility to take accountability for when we hurt other people. CHRISTINE LIU: Lydia says we need to fix a broken system. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: If I had the magic wand, I would disappear capitalism. That would go, because our culture of just trying to accumulate and hoard wealth and keep it in the hands of large multinational corporations and maybe some of their executives and shareholders, that culture is one of exploitation and extraction. And that’s not a culture I want to live in. I mean, I do believe in reducing the harmful impact of policies that currently exist while they continue to exist. But ultimately, my end goal is not to have nicer corporations. My end goal is to have a society where corporations are not one of our primary political actors. CHRISTINE LIU: What strikes me about this whole thing is that it’s true. Productivity is prized. It’s a virtue. And as long as we keep rewarding those who are productive, we’re going to live in ableist society. LYDIA X. Z. BROWN: We are producing for the bosses. We’re not producing for the workers. To change that requires not just a complete overhaul of our political economic system, but it also means radically reconfiguring what the purpose of work is. CHRISTINE LIU: As we’re talking about advocacy and allyship, we’re really talking about people. This is about our friends, our colleagues, our loved ones. We should really get this right. Ask yourself, what are the changes that you want to see?
